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Facebook Debate entitled: Christianity: Verified or Fraudulent (Debate)

original link: [1]


Shakka Ahmose Manu

Kevin would you reiterate your first question please?

Kevin Pendleton Johnson

Sorry, i went to the store. As i was saying, i would like to know which of the ancient myths is similar to the life of christ. If you could give me your answer and an applicable link that supports your position it would be most appreciated. Typically what i've gotten is a rant,then lol,then a rant;you get the picture. What i'm looking for is i think what you're looking for;either the proponderance of the evidence or incontroversial proof. What would be best is a historical record which is relatively close to the period in question or an archeological find. Its easy to say that something didnt happen when its 1500-2000yrs after it happened. The contemporaries of the periods in question are the one who should have the first say. Excuse me for rambling, its just that i really want this to not be what i've experienced before when talking to the people who claim kemet as their motherland. Please answer as close to how i described as possible. When you cant, you cant.

Shakka Ahmose Manu

Excellent question, excellent delivery....I will respond. I think each of us should have at the very least 15 minutes to respond (only if that much is actually needed...just as a window, anything longer I think would be unacceptable..do you agree?)

Kevin Pendleton Johnson

Not really. It may be that we are both learning what each other knows at the same time debating the issue. I dont expect you to know what i do about the bible or the history of some of the people of the region nor should it be assumed that i know what you know about Kemet. You are aloowed as much time as is reasonable to formulate a response and correlate a link to it. After all,its not just us observing this. Those who listen should be given as much of the info that you and i have as is possible

Shakka Ahmose Manu

Not a problem...I will proceed with answering your initial question

Shakka Ahmose Manu

‎"which of the ancient myths is similar to the life of christ" K.P..J. In my informed opinion the the 'Osirian Drama' best exemplifies the relevant tenets of the Christ myth. In this African myth which precedes the Christ myth by 5000 years plus. Osiris (Asaru) is put to death, brought back to 'life' and it is the promise of this resurrection to all who believe on him that they too shall be resurrected. In this same drama it is explicitly made clear (in stark depiction) that no disembodied persons may reach the 'Father' (ie. Osiris), except by the agency of his 'Son' Horus, who himself was 'incarnated' at birth (most people confuse the 'immaculate conception' with 'the incarnation', I however am learned well enough to make the distinction) as was Christ in the mythology espousing him.

Kevin Pendleton Johnson

One other thing. Its 12:45AM where i am so obviously we cant do this for very long tonight. However we will procede with an understanding that it will be impossible to cover everything that we need to in one evening. So i propose that each eveing we can end with a question or an answer and that we will alternate each evening as to who gets the last one. As you have been inclusive enough to allow a dissenting opinion instead of blocking me from the discussion as others who follow the belief system of kemet have done, I'll let you decide both tonight. First, shall we end with a question or an answer each night? Last, shall you end tonight or shall i?

Shakka Ahmose Manu

As a guest on my page...you may have the final volley in the form of a rebuttal (ie. a response).

Kevin Pendleton Johnson

Ok but i got a few more minutes so this dosent have to be the one. Please clarify on your answer if you will. Are you saying that osiris is similar to christ or is it horus or is it a combination of the two?

Kevin Pendleton Johnson

Maybe this would help. What are the specifics of those myths that are similar to the life of christ. You can answer one at a time

Shakka Ahmose Manu

My answer was clarified from the outset. It was the compilers and editors of the 'Bible' who confounded various aspects of the 'Osirian Drama' so you therefore have phenomena related to two individuals present in the Osirian Drama in the primary story, now primarily relegated to one in the plagiarized Christian story.

Kevin Pendleton Johnson

Ok thats not the response that i was hoping for. Let me ask you this. Was isis a virgin?

Shakka Ahmose Manu

Also...as I have a schedule that will not allow me to extend this debate beyond this evening...we are forced to do what we must in doing our best to present what we feel are our most salient points in an effort to get our points across.

Kevin Pendleton Johnson Was isis a virgin?

Shakka Ahmose Manu

I know of no place in any text that says she was. This does not however imply that none exist. It has never been a point of contention for me as I have never claimed she was.

Kevin Pendleton Johnson

Then what about the myth is similar to the life of christ. Your previous answer was insufficient and lacked clarity.

Kevin Pendleton Johnson

Were horus and christ both born of parents by the name of mary and joseph?

Shakka Ahmose Manu

If the two most important tenets of the Christ myth are his resurrection and the resurrection of those who believe on him...I clearly and explicitly explicated on the exact same parallels in the Osirian Drama...perhaps you need to -re-read what I posited above in response to your first question

Shakka Ahmose Manu

Plagiarization which is the accusation being made here is the theft of the construct of a story...plot, direction, outcomes etc and claiming it as your own. Minute details such as irrelevant nouns would not prevent a person being prosecuted for such a crime from being exculpatory.

Kevin Pendleton Johnson

Ok i see where this is going. I guess i have to say it since you wont. First of all, osiris is never ressurected. He's put back together from the fourteen pieces he was hacked into,except his peins, then revived for a short time while isis impregnates herself on a make-shift penis that she attaches to him. He then is forbidden to return to the land of the living and thus becomes the lord of the underworld. Thats not similar at all. There is no ressurection as he remains Lord of the dead until this day.

Kevin Pendleton Johnson

So then what about these myths is similar to the life of christ?

Shakka Ahmose Manu

One man's 'revivification' however you may wish to define it, is another man's 'resurrection'.

Kevin Pendleton Johnson

Please lets not make this an esoteric experience. I came to deal in facts. Fact is osiris was revived and then died again. Christ was ressurected and lives forever more. There's no similaritiy whatsoever between that myth and the life of christ that i can see so far.

Kevin Pendleton Johnson

Was horus born on december 25th? Neither was christ i'm sorry that was a loaded question. Did horus have twelve disciples?

Shakka Ahmose Manu

Kevin it would be appreciated if you allowed me to respond before pre-empting an answer...thank you.

Kevin Pendleton Johnson

My apologies sir.

Shakka Ahmose Manu

‎"As ruler of the dead, Osiris was also sometimes called "king of the LIVING", since the Ancient Egyptians considered the blessed dead "the LIVING ones""

Conceptions of God In Ancient Egypt: The One and the Many", Erik Hornung (translated by John Baines), p. 233, Cornell University Press, 1996, ISBN 10-8014-8384-0

Now that you've been check mated on what you obviously did not know. Perhaps you would like to restructure your line of questioning.

Shakka Ahmose Manu

Where do you think Christianity got the idea from? (smile)

Shakka Ahmose Manu

That's a rhetorical question...not pre-empting your next comment.

Shakka Ahmose Manu

By the way you posed a few questions above that I have yet been given the opportunity to respond to..I will do so now

Shakka Ahmose Manu

‎"Was horus born on december 25th? Neither was christ i'm sorry that was a loaded question. Did horus have twelve disciples?" KPJ

I never made any of these claims made by Gerald Massey. I only quote Massey where and when his 'scholarship' is corroborated by scholars more substantive and erudite than himself.....for example:

"The original foundational matter of the Mosaic writings is not, was not, historical at all, but ENTIRELY MYTHICAL.....The myths of EGYPT will be found to have been COPIED and REPRODUCED. THE HEBREWS TOOK THEM FROM THE EGYPTIANS, with other stolen goods, and were UNABLE or DID NOT CHOOSE to render a TRUE account of them."

Gerald Massey EGYPT LIGHT OF THE WORLD 1907

(And I normally don't him as his 'scholarship' can be quite subjective and interpretative at times, but even he could discern this much)

Kevin Pendleton Johnson

Hey wait a minute ,thats a foul! lol! Seriously though, "sometimes called king of the LIVING" isnt the point. He died, was "revived"(questionablly) made a baby with a fake penis and died again,"NEVER TO RETURN TO THE LAND OF THE LIVING AGAIN" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osiris That is not similar to the life of christ at all.

Kevin Pendleton Johnson

You do realize where massey got his book from,dont you?

Kevin Pendleton Johnson

Dont answer that. Its irrelevant for now. We';ll get to that later.

Shakka Ahmose Manu

I hate being interrupted when responding...it's quite distracting...please allow me to respond...then proceed. Thank you (smile).

Kevin Pendleton Johnson

So now you've changed the subject? We were discussing the similarities of the myths and the life of christ. Who's talking about moses. Please stay on subject.

Shakka Ahmose Manu

Number one ...no...that's not a 'foul'...that was your poor scholarship that got your assertion caught out there for everyone to bare witness to. Number two, youre talking about two different interpretations of the same Eschatology...whether you like it or not. Number 3 as regards Massey I was only demonstrating the type of quote made by Massey that I would employ...one that is easily provable via the historical record.

Shakka Ahmose Manu

You obviously have me confused with a 'Massey' groupie. I traded in 'Massey' for real scholarship back in kindergarden. I could care less about "where he got his books'. He is of no topic of interest to me.

Kevin Pendleton Johnson

We were discussing the evidence for the statement that the ressurection of christ is found in the legend of osiris. It isnt there. Osiris is still the lord of the dead and by the way i found no referrence at all saying that he was ever called lord of the living. Please post a link that attribute that title to him, i'd like to see that one myself. There is no ressurection, there is no similaritiy.

Shakka Ahmose Manu

In your Bible..it says that Christ was hung on a tree (repeatedly)...it also says he was crucified on a cross...two interpretations of the same story...does that mean these are two 'different stories?

Kevin Pendleton Johnson

A tree is wood a cross is wood thats plausible. Being dead and revived is not being dead and ressurected. Those two things are mutually exclusive to each other.

Shakka Ahmose Manu

‎"As ruler of the dead, Osiris was also sometimes called "king of the LIVING", since the Ancient Egyptians considered the blessed dead "the LIVING ones".[3] Conceptions of God In Ancient Egypt: The One and the Many", Erik Hornung (translated by John Baines), p. 233, Cornell University Press, 1996, ISBN 10-8014-8384-0 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osiris#cite_note-2 (end of 2nd paragraph) Sorry you missed it in your research...lazy Christina scholarship (smile).

Shakka Ahmose Manu

No...Kevin...I live across the street from Central Park...there are trees EVERYWHERE. I see not one cross. To attempt to make the two synonymous is desperate at best and dishonest at worst

Shakka Ahmose Manu

A tree is a tree and a cross is a cross.

Shakka Ahmose Manu

I can pick apples from a tree...I can't from a cross.

Shakka Ahmose Manu

Two different interpretations of the same story...the same as it is with Christianity and the Osirian Drama. It's not your fault that you were unaware that the people of Ancient Kmt considered Osiris the 'King of the Living'. Just improve your scholarship and next time do better research.

Shakka Ahmose Manu

I will not comment until you respond..I'm being rude.

Kevin Pendleton Johnson

Do we really have to be insulting. I never said that it wasnt there i just said i missed it. Now back to my point. Osiris was revived and died again and was told "never to return to the land of the living again". Christ died and was ressurected never to die again. Osiris is put back together from 14 pieces minus one. Not a bone of chrsit body was broken which by the way was a fulfillment of prophecy from hundreds of years before he was born. They are not similar. Revived temporarily, then dieing again and ressurected to never die again are not similar at all. As i said before ,those two things are mutually exclusive to each other. There is no similarityt whatsoever.

Kevin Pendleton Johnson

Is there another myth that you think fits the life of christ? That one does not.

Shakka Ahmose Manu

Kevin again...you are debating the nuances of two different interpretations of the same eschatology. The primary one coming out of an Ancient Egyptian matrix. Period. The fact that your claim to doctrinal 'creativity' and 'originality' hinges on irrelevant circumstances not germane to the essential tenets of the eschatology in discussion makes it no less a plagarized story. Even the main Father of the Early Church, St. Augustine said this...if anyone should've known it would have been him. He said and I quote:

"What is now called the 'Christian religion' HAS EXISTED AMONG THE ANCIENTS AND WAS NOT ABSENT FROM THE BEGINNING OF THE HUMAN RACE ....THE TRUE RELIGION WHICH EXISTED .... BEGAN TO BE CALLED CHRISTIAN"

St. Augustine (Retract I, 13)

Kevin Pendleton Johnson

I tell you what. I'll give everyone the link that i have that say's none of the myths are similar to the life of christ. That way you will have time to find a similarity because i've gone over them and i'm sorry but its not there. http://www.thedevineevidence.com/index_articles.html I'm going to bed now. If there is a question or reply that you would like to end on, i'll be happy to defer to you. Thank you agian for allowing a dissenting view on your page, that takes a lot of humility. Good night to all and god bless. By the way i have something for the bretheren as well to ponder.

Kevin Pendleton Johnson

What happened? I tried to post a link.

Shakka Ahmose Manu

Not sure...everyone's facebook pages are wierding out these days

Kevin Pendleton Johnson

Good night. Talk with you tomorrow shakka.

Shakka Ahmose Manu

I'm striking the last two posts you presented from the record. Here's why. Your purpose in this forum was to debate me. You did so...unsuccessfully I might add as I'm sure anyone reading this exchange would no doubt be forced to agree. You were not invited here to proselytize on my page...or to simply deposit links and leave as they cannot be discussed in the context of a 'debate' as you have taken your leave. I always fight fair and hold my opponents to the same standards.

Shakka Ahmose Manu

Number one...you're not debating 'everybody', you're debating me. Thus far I'm not impressed as I was under the impression I had a real challenge on my hands. You made assumptions and got caught out there...which I can assure you would happen repeatedly if we continued. As far as the similarities are concerned...these are the only ones of note for me:

1) Both Osiris and Christ were put to death 2) Both were born without the advent of an earthly father 3) In both Eschatologys a child is born via 'supernatural' means. 4) Both rule the 'living ones' after this life. The doctrine espoused by the priests of both religions promised to the adherents Life everlasting following their resurrection (which to me is the most essential aspects of the similarities...all else is superfluous and unnecessary as far as I'm concerned. The Ancient Egyptians offered RESURRECTION via Osiris 5000 years before the advent of the Christ myth. There's nothing you've posited to refute that. Your interpretation is simply just that...your interpretation of these FACTS).

Shakka Ahmose Manu

With all due respect Kevin...next time come better prepared. I've said nothing insulting...I simply made an observation of your performance...which is available for 'everyone' to peruse at their own leisure. Other than your last two posts which were deleted (and rightfully so)...your entire dialogue is there in tact. You made distinctions which I felt while evident were inconsequential to the refutation of my accusation of plagiarism. Either both religions offered resurrection or they didn't, either both Osiris and Christ were put to death or they weren't, either both religions featured children who were born via supernatural means or they didn't, either both ruled over the 'living ones' subsequent to their deaths or they didn't....and most importantly either these things occurred in the name of Osiris first ...or they.... did.... not. Unfortunately for you and your Christ myth the historical record has convicted you on each count. Hotep. Thanks for the exercise.

Shakka Ahmose Manu

You see Kevin...what thwarted you was that you were under the false impression that I was going to make claims I had no need to make. The historical facts are more than enough.

Shakka Ahmose Manu

You see Kevin...what thwarted you was that you were under the false impression that I was going to make claims I had no need to make. The historical facts are more than enough.

Kevin Pendleton Johnson

Good Morning. I'm sorry if the post i put up for my people offended you. Now where were we? Thwarted? Where? First of all, osiris was put to death by suffocation and there was nothing written proir to his death that hinted to him dying or his method of death.. He was tricked into getting into a coffin and then sealed alive. The coffin was then thrown into the river. Christ died by crucifixion,the exact means of death which was a fulfillment of a prophecy made hundreds of years before he was born and before crucifixion was even invented. Christ was not tricked onto the cross. He went to the cross willingly, was crucified and his body was put in a tomb. Thats not similar. Osiris supposedly was a god who was born a god and never became a man,dies a god and is still dead. Christ is god who became a man, died, came back to life,will never die again and lives forever more as a man who is god. Thats not similar. The dead body of osiris was fished out of the river,his coffin opened by isis and once discovered by his enemies,he was hacked to pieces;then thrown back into the river,without ever walking or speaking a word. Christ came back to life, walked out of his tomb with no assistance was discovered by his followers and walked around talking to them. Thats not similar. Lastly osiris decended into hades and is the lord of the underworld who can never live again. Christ ascened to heaven and is lord of all who will never die again. Thats not similar either. Therefore your premature claim to victory is baseless. There's no similarity between the myth of osiris and the life of christ. As i said before,is there another myth that you feel is similar to the life of christ as the myth of osiris is not. I am on my way to work and should be back by 1pm.

Shakka Ahmose Manu

Allow me to assist you...the stories are two 'different' stories with the exceptions of the eschatology:

eschatology |ˌeskəˈtäləjē| noun the part of theology concerned with death, judgment, and the final destiny of the soul and of humankind. DERIVATIVES eschatological |eˌskatlˈäjikəl; ˌeskətl-| |ˈˈɛsˈkødlˈɑdʒəkəl| |ˈˈɛskədlˈɑdʒəkəl| |-təˈlɒdʒɪk(ə)l| adjective eschatologist |-jist| |ˈɛskəˈtɑlədʒəst| noun ORIGIN mid 19th cent.: from Greek eskhatos ‘last’ + -logy .

This is the essential construct of the story, not irrelevant nouns such as the name of Jesus' parents, or that the myth has him born in Bethlehem or that he was taken to Kemet as a child. These are not the reasons the adherents of the religion subscribe to the doctrine. It is the eschatology and the eschatology alone that is essential. It 's this essential cornerstone of both religions that is called into question as regards biblical 'plagiarism.' The reality is that once the Bible is called into question as far as it's veracity of authenticity, by default the contents therein are rendered mute and obsolete. No Bible...no Christianity, that includes...no Jesus as well, irrespective of how the original Ancient Egyptian story played out.

Shakka Ahmose Manu

The post that you put up for 'your' people did not offend me. That it was not presented appropriately did. You offer answers to arguments never made by myself. I am not Gerald Massey...if you wish to debate him...I'm sure he has a Facebook account as does everyone else (sic). You address the divergences between the two myths but remain conspicuously silent as regards the exactitude of the varied, essential parallels I posited above. Obfuscation on your part will not make those glaringly loud parallels disappear at any given point in time irrespective of how desperately you may wish them to do so. You may cite differences until 'Bishop' Eddie Long comes clean but that will not eradicate these eschatological parallels existing first in the Nile Valley then resurfacing 5000 years later in Christianity:

1) Both Osiris and Christ were put to death 2) Both were born without the advent of an earthly father 3) In both Eschatologys a child is born via 'supernatural' means. 4) Both rule the 'living ones' after this life. The doctrine espoused by the priests of both religions promised to the adherents LIFE EVERLASTING following their RESUURECTION (which to me is the most essential aspects of the similarities...all else is superfluous and unnecessary as far as I'm concerned. The Ancient Egyptians offered RESURRECTION via Osiris 5000 years before the advent of the Christ myth. There's nothing you've posited to refute that.

Shakka Ahmose Manu

Osiris was considered as God in Ancient Egypt...he too had a mother, Nut. This would have made her ....the 'Mother of God' 5000 years PRIOR to Mary. Guess Mary wasn't the first one to have the job (smile). Chalk it up to just one more plagiarized parallel.

Shakka Ahmose Manu

‎"OTHER DOGMAS made Osiris to suffer death at the hands of Set, to beget a son by Isis after his death TO RISE FROM THE DEAD IN A TRANSFORMED BODY, AND TO DWELL IN HEAVEN AS THE LORD OF RIGHTEOUS SOULS. This information is derived from texts which are as old as the VIth dynasty..."

EA WALLIS BUDGE OSIRIS AND THE EGYPTIAN RESURRECTION (pg. 17 of the Preface) Publ. 1911

Another mistake you've blundered into is thinking there is only one version of the Osirian Drama. Budge states clearly that there were varied dogmas only one of which you have fatefully referenced. Know your subject matter. Friday at 11:01am

Shakka Ahmose Manu

‎"Osiris supposedly was a god who was born a god and never became a man,dies a god and is still dead" KPJ

Is that so Kevin? There goes that lazy Christian 'scholarship' again (smile)

"...the primitive theologians of Egypt invented the dogma which declared that Osiris and Set, and Isis and Nepthys, appeared on earth in the forms of HUMAN BEINGS, AND THAT THEIR MORTAL BODIES WERE ABSOLUTELY SIMILAR IN EVERY RESPECT TO THE BODIES OF MEN BORN OF WOMEN"

EA WALLIS BUDGE 'OSIRIS AND THE EGYPTIAN RESURRECTION' (pg. 17 of the Preface, 1st paragraph) Publ. 1911

Oops...you lose again.

Shakka Ahmose Manu

‎"He then is forbidden to return to the land of the living and thus becomes the lord of the underworld. Thats not similar at all. There is no ressurection as he remains Lord of the dead until this day" KPJ

Apparently the expert on the subject matter disagrees with you as do I (smile).

"In no text do we find any connected history of the god, and nowhere are stated in detail the reasons why he assumed his exalted position as the JUDGE OF SOULS. or why, FOR FOUR THOUSAND YEARS, HE REMAINED THE GREAT TYPE AND SYMBOL OF THE ....R.E.S.U.R.R.E.C.T.I.O.N." (emphasis added is mine)

EA WALLIS BUDGE 'OSIRIS AND THE EGYPTIAN RESURRECTION' (Chapt. 1, pg. 1, 1st paragraph) Publ. 1911

4,000 years partner.? Jesus hasn't even made it to 2,500 yet. Are you serious? This is not a 'debate'. It's a slaughter...and it's only gonna get worse as we proceed. I can personally gurantee that (smile).

Shakka Ahmose Manu

‎"No funerary inscription exists, however early, in which EVIDENCE CANNOT BE FOUND PROVING THAT THE DECEASED HAD SET HIS HOPE OF IMMORTALITY IN OSIRIS"

EA WALLIS BUDGE 'OSIRIS AND THE EGYPTIAN RESURRECTION' (Chapt. 1, pg. 1, 1st paragraph) Publ. 1911

'Jesus' wasn't even a thought in the minds of those who manufactured him when this was occuring in the Nile Valley. In fact the people who manufactured him weren't even thoughts in the minds of their own grandparents who themselves had yet to bring our misfortune in giving birth to them.

Shakka Ahmose Manu

‎"Lastly osiris decended into hades and is the lord of the underworld who can never live again" KPJ

I don't think so as Osiris was God to the Africans of Ancient Egypt, I know of no African God, gods, Goddess or goddesses that ever descended into 'Hades' as 'Hades' is GREEK MYTHOLOGY. You're severely confused (merely an observation). You Christians have a nasty habit of confounding and confusing things. Probably a result of being in love with your Greek religion. The Greeks were notorious for confounding and confusing everything they came in contact with....why else do you think Christianity is such a syncretistic religion, a hybrid of hybrids (?). That was rhetorical (smile). Friday at 12:10pm

Shakka Ahmose Manu

‎"Osiris supposedly was a god who was born a god and never became a man,dies a god and is still dead" KPJ

Tsk, tsk tsk, how many times should you be proven to be in grave error on the same point?

"Both Plutarch and Diodorus agree in assigning a DIVINE ORIGIN to Osiris, and both state that he reigned IN THE FORM OF A MAN upon the earth. This being so it is clear that the Egyptians generally believed that a god made himself incarnate, and that an immediate ancestor of the first Pharaoh of Egypt was a being WHO POSSESSED TWO NATURES, THE ONE HUMAN AND THE OTHER DIVINE."

EA WALLIS BUDGE 'OSIRIS AND THE EGYPTIAN RESURRECTION' (Chapt. 1, pg. 16, 1st paragraph) Publ. 1911

"TWO NATURES, THE ONE HUMAN AND THE OTHER DIVINE."

Oh I'm sorry I thought the Christ myth was supposed to be 'authentic' and 'original', seems to me as if they've been digging in someone else's combined 'humanity & divinity'.

Shakka Ahmose Manu

Now you know where the later Christians STOLE the idea from...and yet they had the nerve to persecute the people of Ancient Egypt for practicing a doctrine that was the Mother of the one they, the Christians preached; a resurrected 'King of the living', of a nature both HUMAN and DIVINE. You're a bunch of ecclesiastic and sacerdotal thieves claiming exclusivity for that which in point of fact (as has been successfully documented here) has it's origins in the African culture of Ancient Egypt. And I'm holding back.

Shakka Ahmose Manu

Kevin..I'm reposting this as it appears I left off an important piece at the end in my original posting of it.

"Both Plutarch and Diodorus agree in assigning a DIVINE ORIGIN to Osiris, and both state that he reigned IN THE FORM OF A MAN upon the earth. This being so it is clear that the Egyptians generally believed that a god made himself incarnate, and that an immediate ancestor of the first Pharaoh of Egypt was a being WHO POSSESSED TWO NATURES, THE ONE HUMAN AND THE OTHER DIVINE. AS A MAN HE PERFORMED THE GOOD WORKS WHICH HIS DIVINE NATURE INDICATED TO HIM..."

EA WALLIS BUDGE 'OSIRIS AND THE EGYPTIAN RESURRECTION' (Chapt. 1, pg. 16, 1st paragraph) Publ. 1911

Like I said...the essential constructs of your story are PLAGIARIZED. It matters not what the names of Jesus' parents were (what childishness) as the essential aspects of the story match virtually line for line.

Shakka Ahmose Manu

‎"What are the specifics of those myths that are similar to the life of christ" KPJ

I bet you know now don't you? How about you post my responses on your page for all of 'your' people to see. Let's see some of that Christian generosity of Spirit (smile...lol). Friday at 1:06pm

Shakka Ahmose Manu

‎"From what Plutarch says we are BOUND to CONCLUDE that THE EGYPTIANS DID NOT BELIEVE THAT OSIRIS PERISHED AND CAME TO AN END with the dismemberment of his body by Typhon, for if they did Plutarch could not have told us that Osiris RETURNED from the OTHER World."

"...but it is clear that he (Osiris) had the the power of speech and thought, and that he appeared in a form which Horus could recognize"

EA WALLIS BUDGE 'OSIRIS AND THE EGYPTIAN RESURRECTION' (Chapt. 1, pg. 17, 2nd paragraph) Publ. 1911

I don't know...but sounds a hell of alot like another story that came much, much later claiming to be 'authentic' and 'original'. Yeah ok...and the Osmonds Brothers were not a rip off of the Jackson 5. Puh-leeze!

Shakka Ahmose Manu

Now that you have been PROVEN WRONG on EACH of the claims you made above....would you like to apologize to the Kemetic community for making accusations and claims DEFINITIVELY proven false now or later?

Shakka Ahmose Manu

‎"Since Osiris seems to have been THE EARLIEST DEATH AND RESURRECTION GOD, WHOSE WORSHIP BOTH CAUSED AND INFLUENCED LATER DEITIES, the cult of Osiris is highly important to all concerned with the development of human culture."

EA WALLIS BUDGE 'OSIRIS AND THE EGYPTIAN RESURRECTION' (Inside Cover) Publ. 1911

Now...what were you saying....I can't hear you while you're choking on your dis-proven claims.

Shakka Ahmose Manu

‎"i would like to know which of the ancient myths is similar to the life of christ." KPj

Now I will definitively answer your question.

"The central figure of the Ancient Egyptian Religion was Osiris, AND THE CHIEF FUNDAMENTALS OF HIS CULT WERE THE BELIEF IN HIS DIVINITY, DEATH, RESURRECTION AND ABSOLUTE CONTROL OF THE DESTINIES OF THE BODIES AND SOULS OF MEN. THE CENTRAL POINT OF EACH OSIRIAN'S RELIGION WAS HIS HOPE OF RESURRECTION IN A TRANSFORMED BODY AND OF IMMORTALITY, WHICH COULD ONLY BE REALIZED BY HIM THROUGH THE DEATH AND RESURRECTION OF OSIRIS."

EA WALLIS BUDGE 'OSIRIS AND THE EGYPTIAN RESURRECTION' (Preface) Publ. 1911

And you really thought your 'hand me down', 'Greek effort' at religion was original? And you actually came here to debate me? And you want me to believe that Ray Hagin 'ran' from you? Perhaps he was just getting some exercise...he is a bit portly you know (smile). No...I don't think so, on any of the above. Does your Greek effort at religion teach you how to accept defeat? You see my African religion teaches me to prepare only for victory. Why? Because Osiris was VICTORIOUS...he ROSE AGAIN...and did it 5000 years before your Greek and Roman created 'Jesus' (in your Greco Roman literature, called 'the Bible') tried to copy him the same exact way little kids copy Michael Jackson's moves. Sorry ...it's already been done before.

Shakka Ahmose Manu

Perhaps you would like to go and get a Pastor, a Deacon, a Prophet or a Prophetess to assist you....maybe even a theologian or a historian, or even Jesus himself...because you're going to be in need of professional help if youre going to come up against me in a debate I mastered over 30 years ago.

Shakka Ahmose Manu

Kevin in all honesty...I respect the fact that you had the courage to engage in a debate about a very sensitive topic. Pardon my 'show boating', only please try to understand it is nothing more than a response on behalf of all those who have been persecuted and 'damned to hell' by every bible thumbing Jesus victim in our communities. It

Shakka Ahmose Manu

It is a very liberating feeling to discover that in point of fact it was the Bible thumpers such as yourself who were in error and not we. And when people are liberated they tend to dance, jump and shout and 'make a joyful noise to the Lord' (smile).

Shakka Ahmose Manu

The Lord being...'Osiris, Lord of the Perfect Black' as he is referred to in one of his many titles:

"......for example a black stone , such as basalt, would associate the subject with Asar (Osiris) in His aspect of "Lord of the Perfect Black" "

EA Wallace Budge (Keeper of the Egyptian and Assyrian Antiquities at the British Museum)

Kevin Pendleton Johnson

Just beacause you said a lot it doesnt mean that here is anything to what you said. For instance you say that both christ and osisris are put to death,as if the manner of death is irrelevant. Osiris died from suffocation. Christ died from crucifixion. Thats not similar. Osiris was a ruling king who died due to an act of hatred by a fellow god who wanted to take his place as king. Christ was poor and lowly who died as a result of love that god had for the world, by the will of his father and has not taken the throne. Its not the same death nor motive for death. Thats not similar. The mother of osiris was a god, the mother of christ a human. Thats not similar. Although horus was born supernatrually there's nothing about osiris being born that way. Osiris was the result of copulation between his parents. Thats not similar. In fact since horus was born of a makeshift penis and christ was born of a woman who knew no man(virgin) horus isnt similar either. Dead people being called the living is not the same as living people. I can call a sqiurell a duck but he's still a squirell. You can call the dead living but they are still dead. Osiris is not the god of the living(breathing,heartbeat,etc). He is the god of the underworld(dead people) Thats not similar. Osiris is still dead and is a type and symbol of a still yet to come ressurection. Christ was ressurected and remains alive. Thats not similar. Osiris appeared as a mortal and then went back to being in the form of a god. Christ became mortal and kept his mortal body. Thats not similar. Osiris say's nothing nor does he move after he is revived by isis' magical incantation. Christ moved, talked and ate with his followers after he was ressurected. Thats not similar. Therefore the only thing proven to be false are the so-called similarities between the myth of osiris and the life of christ. Different deaths,different reasons for dying,different sations in life before death,different types of parents,different relationship to the living,different results after death,different bodily make-up after death,different actions after death. The myth of osiris if not similar at all to the life of christ. Now, As far as the statements by you like lazy christian scholarship,you should come better prepared,thieves,etc. Is that really necessary? I'm not being condescending or insulting towards you, so there's no need to do it to me and it is simply a waste of words which is not helpful nor a good use of the limited time we both have to do this. So if anyone owes an apology it is you that owes me one.

Shakka Ahmose Manu

‎"Herodotus and others wrote down, no doubt, accurately enough, so far as they understood it, what they were told by Egyptian priests and by their well educated friends in Egypt, but it is quite clear, by the construction which they put upon much of the information which they received, that they did not really understand the rudimentary principles of THE EGYPTIAN RELIGION, or it's primitive cults, OR THE NATURE OF THEIR SYMBOLISM. There is no evidence in their works that they knew of, or even suspected, the existence in it OF THE ALL-EMBRACING BELIEFS IN THE POWER OF THE GREAT ANCESTRAL SPIRIT, AND IN THE RESURRECTION OF MEN IN GENERAL AND THEIR IMMORTALITY, WHICH ARE THE CHIEF CHARACTERISTICS OF THE EGYPTIAN RELIGION. And these writers had no knowledge of the details of the cult of Osiris, and of it's history, such as we now possess (thanks to the religious texts of the VIth dynasty), because they could not read the the native literature of Egypt."

EA WALLIS BUDGE 'OSIRIS AND THE EGYPTIAN RESURRECTION' (pg. viii of Preface) Publ. 1911

Kevin Pendleton Johnson

By the way both plutarch(46-120AD) and diodorus silicus whose works were from 30-60BC were born thousands of years after the myth of osiris was invented and can not be counted as worthy critics of the myth as there is no way of knowing how much the myth had been changed by the time they commented on it. Thats why i said that those who were contemporary to the actual event would be the ones given the most weight. After 5,000yrs their commentaries are pretty light-weight and not reliable as scholars on the subject.

Shakka Ahmose Manu

I anticipated you would say that (smile). Observe.

"Herodotus and others wrote down, no doubt, accurately enough, so far as they understood it, what they were told by Egyptian priests and by their well educated friends in Egypt, but it is quite clear, by the construction which they put upon much of the information which they received, that they did not really understand the rudimentary principles of THE EGYPTIAN RELIGION, or it's primitive cults, OR THE NATURE OF THEIR SYMBOLISM. There is no evidence in their works that they knew of, or even suspected, the existence in it OF THE ALL-EMBRACING BELIEFS IN THE POWER OF THE GREAT ANCESTRAL SPIRIT, AND IN THE RESURRECTION OF MEN IN GENERAL AND THEIR IMMORTALITY, WHICH ARE THE CHIEF CHARACTERISTICS OF THE EGYPTIAN RELIGION. And these writers had no knowledge of the details of the cult of Osiris, and of it's history, such as we now possess (thanks to the religious texts of the VIth dynasty), because they could not read the the native literature of Egypt."

EA WALLIS BUDGE 'OSIRIS AND THE EGYPTIAN RESURRECTION' (pg. viii of Preface) Publ. 1911

Shakka Ahmose Manu

I will always defeat you.

Kevin Pendleton Johnson

Regardles of what you anticipated,the fact remains that these writers recieved their info second hand and are not reliable as they wrote "so far as they understood". Thats not scholarship its speculation and has no place in this debate. It stands that there is no similarities between the myth of osiris and the life of christ. Friday at 3:42pm

Kevin Pendleton Johnson

Unless they examined the myths themselves in writting they offer no meaningful substance to the topic.

Kevin Pendleton Johnson

THERE ARE NO SIMILARITIES BETWEEN THE MYTH OF OSIRIS AND THE LIFE OF CHRIST. IS THERE ANOTHER MYTH THAT YOU FEEL IS SIMILAR TO THE LIFE OF CHRIST? BECAUSE THE MYTH OF OSIRIS IS NOT SIMILAR TO THE LIFE OF CHRIST AT ALL.

Kevin Pendleton Johnson

Whats with the "i will always defeat you" comment/ Is that one of those jedi mind tricks from the ancient order of egypt? Remember that only works on the weak-minded so you'll have to actually debate me to defeat me. So far i'm up 1 nothing.

Shakka Ahmose Manu

These are the VIth dynasty texts Budge refers to, we do not need Plutarch or Herodotus (smile). The texts speak for themselves:

"The pyramid texts are the oldest known religious texts in the world."

Richard H. Wilkinson, The Complete Gods and Goddesses of Ancient Egypt, Thames and Hudson, New York, 2003, p 6 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyramid_Texts#cite_note-0

Why you chose to ignore the fact that Budge explicitly states that his premise is based on the texts of the Ancient Egyptians themselves via the VIth dynasty texts in simply indicative of the average dishonesty of the average Christian or indicative of your already witnessed wanting scholarship (not an insult, merely an observation)

Kevin Pendleton Johnson

We were not discussing how old the pyramid text were, we were talking about the fact that there is no similarity between the myth of osiris and the life of christ. You have failed to prove any specific similarities between the two. Would you like to move to a different topic?

Shakka Ahmose Manu

Unless you are prepared to acknowledge the documented evidence thus far presented in this debate....we can end it now. I do not entertain people who live in a fantasy world. If you wish to debate then acknowledge when you've been proven in error, as I would eagerly do so. Making a seemingly authoritative proclamation such as the one you continue to enumerate hopelessly in vain only shows like all typical Christians you are quite adept at living in denial....perhaps you might wish to try 'on' the Nile instead (smile). Respond appropriately or we can end it now. I don't waist my time with freshmen who don't know how to conduct themselves in a debate. I have no interest in your opinion. What can you prove via the historical record...thus far you've proved nothing accept that you do not study as much as you perhaps should.

Shakka Ahmose Manu

Please rely on Tacitus or Pliny the Younger so I can dismantle them for you...please by all means...or perhaps 'Josephus'. Please prove even the existence of your fictitious Hebrew carpenter. You're not on my level as anyone reading this exchange would no doubt conclude, even Christians themselves. I wish you could see the emails I'm getting concerning this debate. You're single handedly doing my job for me ....I should thank you. You set em up...I'll knock em down.

Kevin Pendleton Johnson

What are you talking about? What documented evidence. You never presented the myth of osiris for examination. All you did was to qoute men like Budge who lived 7,000yrs after the myth was developed or the roman historians who were not contemporary to the myth either. "None of the specifics of the myth of osiris is similar to the life of christ". Not one! Not the way they were born,parents,died,manner of death,events after death, relationship with the living nothing. So how was i proven in error? There are no similarities at all. If you would like to post the myth and let it speak for itself thats fine,but to post the writtings of those who had no first hand knowledge of the myth and offer it as an authority is absurd and deceptive. Like i said i'm here to discuss facts,all you've presented was theory and speculation. POST THE EARLIEST FORM OF THE MYTH FOR EXAMINATION. THATS REAL DOCUMENTATION,SO FAR THERE IS NONE!

Kevin Pendleton Johnson

I got to leave for a few,be back in an hr

Shakka Ahmose Manu

I've already listed the similarities by itemizing them for more than once in this forum...for you to pretend as if I haven't is a sign of weakness and dishonesty, in fact it's just flat out rude. Denial no matter how loudly professed does not disintegrate evidence and facts, something you Christians really seem to have a problem with wrapping your warped minds around. I prefer opponents with some academic integrity Christian or otherwise; presently I've been faced with none.

Shakka Ahmose Manu

Everything you've asked for I've given and more and never once have I neglected to acknowledge a post made by yourself. I've responded when queried and have done so more than adequately. Christians were poor sportsmen from the beginning of their Greek manufactured religion...they should have fed more to the lions and I'm beginning to think you included.

Shakka Ahmose Manu

You've attempted to proceed throughout this slaughter of a debate on the offensive and still I crushed your assertions each time out the box...the evidence is cited here in this forum for all to read for perpetuity as long as this social network is up and running. That's some embarrassment that's going to go a looong way. How dare you misrepresent those Christians who are reading this expecting you to come with some real scholarship, opening up the annals (or in your case the anus) of history...letting all of those supposed Christian 'Truths' pour outwardly forward. I couldv'e done a better job defending the Christ myth myself....the difference is...I know where to look....but then again as time and experience have shown me....you can't 'defend' the 'indefensible' (something you obviously have yet to learn). Take it from this high school drop out, you couldn't 'see' me in a debate if it was my worse day and it was your best. Why? Losing teams don't win. Your team lost at the Ecumenical Council of Ephesus in the 5th century AD when your Roman Manufactured Jesus was created by a series of ecclesiastic formulas, all of which I can break down for you right here....which ecumenical creed would you like me to begin with? Or would you rather do this through textual criticism? Makes no difference to me either way. Pick a codex. You...are...not...on....my....level. Now pray...and ask for forgiveness.

Shakka Ahmose Manu

Come correct or don't come at all, or I'm shuttin' down shop...I have more important things to attend to than to waste time with someone who 'thought' they knew the subject matter they were so passionate about defending. At this point you're reminding me of a child who covers their eyes and says "you can't see me"!!!, simply because they themselves can't see, and so they mistakenly 'believe' in their juvenile minds that what they believe to be true is in fact true. Preposterous and pathetic. Typical of every Christian I've ever met.

Kevin Pendleton Johnson

First of all what you did was to post the commentary of some one about the myth,thats not the same as posting the myth. It would be the same as if you said that there was a contrdiction in the bible and then i posted a commentary by someone who lived 2000yrs afterwards saying there was no contradiction. That wouldnt fly for you then why should i accept it? What you have posted as to the motive for death,cause of death,results after death and bodily form after death are not similar to the life of christ.Your points 1. both osiris and christ were put to death. Being tricked into getting into a coffin and knowingly going to a place where you would be killed are two entirely different things. Not similar at all! 2. Both were born without an earthly father. That was really deceptive as you failed to mention that the mother of osiris was a god and the mother of christ was human. Not similar at all! 3. Both rule the living ones after death. Thats where you engage in symantics. No matter what dead people are called ,they are still dead. Osiris is not the god of the living but the god of the dead who hope to live again and that some body occassionally refers to as living. NONE OF THESE THINGS ARE SIMILAR TO THE LIFE OF CHRIst AND YOU KNOW IT!! SO DOES ANY RATIONALLY THINKING HUMAN BEING WHO IS PAYING ATTENTION TO WHAT YOU HAVE SAID! I guess i now no the meaning of your satement that "You will always defeat me". Thats not hard to do when you wont produce the myth in its entirety for examination. But choose to put out bits and pieces of the myth according to some one who lived 7,000yrs after it was written. No sir, it is you who is being dishonest. All this come correct or dont come at all is a diversion. Why dont you just post the myth? What are you afraid of? Obviously you are hiding something. I would never be a proponent for the bible without being willing to let it be examined. So why are you a proponent for a myth that you dont want to be seen in print? THATS WEAKNESS, THATS DISHONESTY AND THAT THE TACTICS OF A FRAUD!!! LETS SEE THE MYTH IN ITS ENTIREITY. DONT BE SCARRRRED,UH UH, DONT BE SCARRRRED! LETS SEE THE MYTH!!

Kevin Pendleton Johnson

You say i remind you of a child who covers their eyes and say's you cant see me? WHAT WE CANT SEE IS THAT MYTH!! TELL OSIRIS TO COME FORTH OR THREATEN HIM WITH YOUR INCANTATIONS IF HE DOESNT OBEY AS WAS THE PRACTIC E OF THE EGYPTIANS. DO SOMETHING BECAUSE YOU'RE LOOKING LIKE A SNAKE-OIL SALESMAN RIGHT ABOUT NOW. LETS SEE THE MYTH! DONT HIDE BEHIND THE I'M NOT GONNA DO THIS OR THAT BECAUSE YOU SO HIGH AND MIGHTY. SHOW US THE MYTH OR STOP SUPPORTING THAT WHICH YOU REFUSE TO BE ALLOWED TO BE EXAMINED. ITS FRAUDULENT AT BEST!! LETS SEE THE MYTH!

Kevin Pendleton Johnson

YOU'RE LIKE THE GUY SELLING FAKE ROLEX'S AND WONT LET MY JEWELER EXAMINE IT!! HE WANTS TO PUT HIS LOOP ON AND CHECK IT OUT. IF ITS REAAL WE'LL SEE IT ONCE YOU PRODUCE THE WATCH. SO FAR I SEE NO WATCH. WHATS UP WITH DAT?

Shakka Ahmose Manu

LOL!!! Kevin...I knew you had it in you to make me laugh....I love the way you ended that....DONT BE SCARRRRED,UH UH, DONT BE SCARRRRED! fuuuny. It's rare to meet Christians with a sense of humor...I really enjoyed that. Look the topic is whether or not Christianity is fraudulent, not the divergences between the Myths of Osiris and Jesus Christ. That horse has not only been beaten to death thus far and explicated on at length by myself numerous times during this dialogue, but it has ridden out of sight without you. The Myth of Osiris is just as available and accessible as is the Myth of Jesus Christ to anyone who wishes to familiarize themselves with it...therefore I have not asked of you to post it as I see no purpose for doing so. The myths (plural, as there are numerous ones) of Osiris as I said are as readily available and accessible as are the Myths of Christ. You make the request of me in such an idiotic fashion that you would think the myth belongs to me or is my own personal property which would prevent YOU from producing it. Therefore that not being the case...since you want the myth brought forth so badly so as to explicate it why don't YOU produce it being you seem to be so enthralled with it. Unless you produce an authentic version straight out of an Ancient Egyptian text....it will be obsolete....why? For the very reasons you and I both posited above. The writers who expounded on the myth were not versed in the native literature and could therefore only be given but so much credibility. Therefore ...since you are so insistent on producing a copy of the myth itself I would highly suggest you begin with a serious examination of the Pyramid Texts. In the mean time I will pose a question of my own. I've done all of the proving thus far and quite competently I might add. Now it's your turn as you've lost the first round (and apparently a few others as well...even if only by popular vote only. You remind me of the other kid...you know the one, the one who gets his butt kicked in public and then gets up off the ground bloodied, beaten and bruised and then asks...."Who wants to fight"? Umm someone should tell him he's lost already dont'cha think? Here's my question. If the first bible was produced in Alexandria Egypt and it was...why should we not assume that the religious literature that went into making it was not Native Egyptian itself to begin with. Choke on that as you search for an authentic recension of the Osiris Myth (smile). I was respectful enough to go in depth with respect to answer your questions now you will answer mine for all to see.

Kevin Pendleton Johnson

Did you just say that "The writers who expounded on the myth were not versde in the native literature and could therefore only be given but so much credibility"? If thats the case then why are you contending that their commentaries are accurate? Also, as i have shown, there are general similarities between osiris and christ but the specifics are totally different. That form of deception has been used and exposed on numerous occasions. I offer the following as one such example.

Shakka Ahmose Manu

Also...why are you so sure that the original Greek manuscripts used as the 'source' documents for both the Old and New Testament say what has been written in your English Translation? Are you well versed in Greek?

Kevin Pendleton Johnson

I tried to post the link and it failed. I guess you dont want people to know the truth. It figures, you know there's no similarities but you dont want anyone to see it for themselves. Thats dishonest to the Nth degree!! You use the words of someone else(thats lazy scholarship at its worst) then you block me from posting the myth for examination. Thats fraudulant to the core

Shakka Ahmose Manu

On my word I have not blocked you from posting anything whatsoever. Provided you do so in an appropriate way, posting the evidence / testimony and then posting a link just to substantiate it...is fine. I do not do...just links, because someone has something they want me to see or read. Bring your evidence here to the forum as I have. I've blocked you from posting nothing

Kevin Pendleton Johnson

We are not discussing greek manuscripts! The topic is the myth of osiris of which there are no specific similarities other than they both died. Christ by the way did not father a child have sex while he was alive or dead and isnt trying to figure out how he's gonna come back to life after some 7,000 yrs. Your argument is baseless and you have not produced anthing that shows any similarities between the two.

Shakka Ahmose Manu

I suggest you read the topic above in the original Posting of this forum...this is not Church...and it is not your bully pullpit. I have questions of my own....you are not a prosecutor and I am not the defense...now...answer my questions

Kevin Pendleton Johnson

I suggest that whatever is posted should be done in its entiriety as it is possible to hid dissenting or conflicting information when you are just posting snipets of the work in question

Shakka Ahmose Manu

‎"you have not produced anthing that shows any similarities between the two." KPJ

If you reiterate this lie once more in this forum you will be disqualified from the debate as the evidence on the page says otherwise and it is the evidence that has the last word...NOT YOU. Christians always make the stupid choice of thinking others need them to think for them...simply because Christians have been trained to not think for themselves.

Shakka Ahmose Manu

I purposefully deleted your last comment with the link because I am not debating the person who wrote that crappy article. I am debating you. If I can take the time to meticulously gather and present my evidence then you can return the same courtesy. As I said...their are rules and guidelines to debating...and proceeding with what's convenient for you is not one of them. Present your evidence HERE in the forum for all to see...AS I HAVE DONE. A link should only be used to substantiate what has been submitted. It is a source reference only. I have yet to submit a link by itself. It shows poor debating skills and wreaks of freshmanship.

Shakka Ahmose Manu

You will either address my questions, produce the myth you requested of me so insistently (as if you yourself do not have as much access to it as does anyone else), or you will be disqualified for poor conduct in a debate. You don't reserve the right to select what questions you will answer and which you will ignore ...nor do you reserve the right to engage in every Christians favorite indulgence...ignoring the facts and the evidence as they speak for themselves. You have to resort to showmanship because you have no scholarship with which to proceed."The WHOLE Christian Bible was derived from the sacred books of Egypt, such as: THE BOOK OF THE DEAD, THE PYRAMID TEXTS, AND THE BOOKS OF THOTH."

EA Wallis Budge (Keeper of the Egyptian and Assyrian Antiquities at the British Museum)

Shakka Ahmose Manu

‎1) Both Osiris and Christ were put to death 2) Both were born without the advent of an earthly father 3) In both Eschatologys a child is born via 'supernatural' means.4) Both rule the 'living ones' after this life. The doctrine espoused by the priests of both religions promised to the adherents LIFE EVERLASTING following their RESUURECTION (which to me is the most essential aspects of the similarities...all else is superfluous and unnecessary as far as I'm concerned. The Ancient Egyptians offered RESURRECTION via Osiris 5000 years before the advent of the Christ myth. There's nothing you've posited to refute that.

Kevin Pendleton Johnson

IF I WONT BE ALLOWED TO POST THE LINKS THEN YOU SHOULDNT BE ALLOWED TO POST THE COMMENTS OF MR BUDGE,WHO BY THE WAY WAS A MEMBER OF THE THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY WHICH WAS STARTED BY THE SATANIST H.P. BLAVATSKY. SO THEN AS HE IS TOTALLY BIASED AND A CHRIST-HATER, HIS QOUTES SHOULD NO LONGER BE MADE AVAILABLE IN THIS DEBATE. BOTH DIED DIFFERENT DEATHS FOR DIFFERENT REASONS,THATS NOT SIMILAR! OSIRIS WAS BORN AS THE RESULT OF A SEXUAL ACT,CHRIST WAS NOT. THATS NOT SIMILLAR. OSIRIS FATHERED A CHILD,CHRIST DID NOT. THATS NOT SIMILAR! OSIRIS WAS REVIVED THEN DIED AND NEVER LIVED AGAIN,CHRIST WAS RESSURECTED NEVER TO DIE AGAIN. THATS NOT SIMILAR! WHAT YOU HAVE POSTED CLEARLY REFUTES THE SO-CALLED SIMILARITIES ALL BY ITSELF!

Shakka Ahmose Manu

I told you...if you repeated that lie once more...the debate was over...you've been defeated....everyone can witness it. My suggestion; if in the future someone is kind enough to give you an audience and debate that which you find of concern...be courteous enough to extend to them the respect which was extended to you. You have chosen to disregard authoritative academic evidence and testimony and you have chosen to not answer any questions put to you as if you are above answering any questions or somehow divinely exempt. Therefore this debate is concluded....there is a stark difference between 'running' and 'bannishing' someone. You my poor scholar are now just that...banished from this debate. Should you reply...even once....you will be blocked...your comments will be edited out...and someone else (more respectful of debate conduct will be allowed to proceed in your stead. My page...my rules. Jesus doesn't rule this page...I do.

Shakka Ahmose Manu

You present no scholarship....being a member of the Theosophical society in no way prevented him from other responsible endeavors in academia...and making Theosophy a politically charged word in no way makes your assertions any the more correct than they were not previously. You presented your case poorly and your debate conduct was even poorer. You could have produced the Osirian Myth at any point yourself if it was that germane to your argument. What christian stupidity of your own would induce you to try and get me to do your work? You want the myth? Then post it. You looked like a complete idiot ranting about something you could present with a click of a button. I know what Christianity does to the mind....I just didn't think debilitation settled in so quickly. Brush up on your scholarship as desperate moves are unattractive. The whole villification of Budge thing....was rather dramatic and lacked scholarship. Characterizing someone is not the same as successful r.e.f.u.t.a.t.i.u.o.n. of their scholarship. It's unfortunate you couldnt keep it together....you could've learned much from our exchange...even Jesus knows....you desperately need it. I can't believe you actually brought up 'Satan Worship' in an academic discussion. Well heres another theosophist with a degree from Columbia University : "The entire Christian Bible, creation legend, descent into and exodus from Egypt, ark and flood allegory, Israelite history, Hebrew prophesy and poetry, Gospel, Epistles and Revelation imagery, ALL ARE NOW PROVEN to have been the TRANSMISSION OF ANCIENT EGYPTS SCROLLS AND PAPYRI into the hands of later generations which knew neither their true origin nor their fathomless meaning"

Dr Alvin Boyd Kuhn PhD PhD Theosophy Columbia University

Shakka Ahmose Manu

AND THE WINNER IS!!!! BY 5000 YEARS AND BETTER....ANCIENT EGYPT!!!!!

Shakka Ahmose Manu

This debate is now open for any other Christian who would like to take up where Kevin miserably failed.

Shakka Ahmose Manu

Hopefully unlike Kevin you'll bring some actual schoalrship to the table. Though I doubt it....there's a reason Christianity and scholarship don't go together; one requires you to be stupid as all hell, the other actually puts some knowledge in your head, and since knowledge is power...we all know that power is a threat to anyone seeking to control...just ask an abused child. That's what Christians are...people who are psycho-spiritually abused and what I find pathetic is not that they don't know it, but even if they did...they wouldn't care.

Shakka Ahmose Manu

Well, guess this debate is done...I mean won (smile), and over.